mohammed al ariane has probably been more of a proponent of the new normal. i don't know whether that's a pimco idea, the firm that pimco came up with following the fiscal crisis -- not the fiscal -- financial crisis. if you still believe that, what if we never get to 6.5%. >> well, hi, joe. it's great to see you. you're exactly right. just a month ago chairman bernanke for the first time acknowledged that the u.s. has structurally lower economic growth. but we've been calling the new normal for the last few years. and you're exactly right. that means the fed, if you combine that with yesterday's announcement, that means the fed is going to be exceptionally easy for a long time, and that it could be a couple years or could be three, four years, maybe even longer, because unemployment is now structurally higher. we hope it's 6.5% is not the new naru, the new minimum unemployment. certainly it is increasing. the longer people stay unemployed the more structural it becomes. the fed is really in a box here. they're trying to engineer financial market outcomes. trying to raise the prices o